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1  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Excelsior JET AOT Java Compiling (sale) on: 2013-12-27 08:50:54
We ended up raising $8,236 this year (up from $5,690 in 2012).

In other news, Excelsior JET 9 shipped yesterday, so if you spent $50 or more on a Charity Bundle, you should have received the download instructions for your free upgrade by email.
2  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Excelsior JET AOT Java Compiling (sale) on: 2013-12-17 05:58:47
Just a quick reminder that the deal ends on Dec 25.
Dmitry Leskov
Excelsior LLC
3  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: Excelsior JET for 10 bucks ? on: 2012-10-26 11:37:50
Hi Dmitry! You really should make more of a song-and-dance about these features like free Pro licenses and small biz discounts!

Hi Cas,

I thought I was doing good job there - there was a prominent "Get It Free" link on all Excelsior JET pages prior to this charity program, and there is a block of links to the various discounts options right on the order page. Even in the charity program FAQ there are multiple links. What else do you think I could do here?

Slimdown seems like a much more sensible tradeoff in space for complexity and reliability.
We expected that Project Jigsaw would make it even more sensible, but that has been pushed to Java 9...

But yeah... Mac OS port, pretty please  Kiss Kiss Kiss
It used to be the #1 feature request, but now Java 7 support seems to be taking over. Sad
4  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: Excelsior JET for 10 bucks ? on: 2012-10-26 10:12:32
Dmitry Leskov from Excelsior here.

Just to clear things up a bit:

JetPerfect is long gone, for two reasons - it was not JCK compliant, and its aggressiveness often made it extremely error-prone (the tipping point was an SWT application failing because it was compiled on a machine with a clickwheel-less mouse and JetPerfect had stripped the clickwheel-handling logic off the EXE! Smiley )

We have since created a replacement technology that we call Java Runtime Slim-Down, which does not have the above issues. With it, I was recently able to bring the JavaFX 2 Ensemble demo down to a 19MB standalone download (i.e. a single installer that does not need the JRE nor the JavaFX Runtime pre-installed.)

The only caveat in the context of this thread is that Java Runtime Slim-Down is only available in the Pro Edition and up. But:

If you have further questions, you can reach me at dleskov (at)
5  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Excelsior jet standard vs. pro editions on: 2011-02-18 05:58:46
Thanks very much for your response.  A follow-up, if I may:

I'm confused now about exactly what is produced from Excelsior Jet.  I had thought that a Java application would be compiled down to native code, and that that native code (exe) consisted of only the bytes needed to run the exe on a given OS.  Is that accurate?

Is it the case that the exe produced also contains a JVM?  Or is it just that the JVM is present in the Jet tool, and is used when creating the native exe?
What Excelsior JET does is it compiles Java bytecode down to native code. But your application remains a Java application, so it needs all the other facilities provided by a JVM: garbage collection, threading, JNI, etc. So yes, there is a JVM in the runtime.

Then, your application may create classes on the fly (e.g. dynamic proxies), or load classes that were not known at the time of native compilation (e.g. third-party plugins.) In order to handle those classes, the underlying JVM must provide either an interpreter (as GCJ does) or a JIT compiler (as Excelsior JET does). In fact, you may compile just the class containing the main() method and leave the rest to the runtime...

In other words, Excelsior JET is technically a complete Java SE implementation. It just enables you to precompile the known classes down to native code prior to deployment. It also has a couple of interesting deployment options to help you reduce the download size and disk footprint of your Java apps.

See Excelsior JET Technology Overview for details.
6  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Lots of doors are being closed for Java on: 2011-02-17 12:50:24

...LWJGL based apps though are nice and easy for you to deal with though Smiley We'll take care of the iOS interface bit. If you could just make JET spit out a .so we can call into from a stub...

Cas Smiley
Well, a headless port (that is, without screen/mouse/keyboard related parts of the library/runtime) is indeed permitted by the Java license, and we may start with just that on ARM/Linux anyway. An iOS port should not be that difficult then.

Field of use may be a problem though - Java SE is still not permitted on cellphones, and its usage on devices other than general purpose PCs and servers is subject to royalties... I expect the former to change at some point as the line between cellphones and everything else has been blurred by tablets and such.
7  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Excelsior jet standard vs. pro editions on: 2011-02-17 12:43:19
I'm still waiting for an ARM backend, Dmitry Smiley I think there's a huge pile of cash in there.... I'd buy an ARM JET for $10k right now.

Cas Smiley
If you think you would still want it in 2012, find 49 more people like you, give us half the money up front and put the rest in escrow. Smiley
8  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Lots of doors are being closed for Java on: 2011-02-17 12:18:09
Full-fledged iOS port is a different story though.
Not sure how profitable it'd be (compared to how much it'd cost to develop)
You nailed it!

The problem is not the compiler, it is the standard library, specifically AWT native methods and L&F. Your app does not only have to be compiled down to native code, it must also look and feel native in order to get accepted in the iOS App Store.

For Windows and Linux, we just use the licensed reference implementation of the standard library. It costs us a hefty sum of money each year, but it is exactly the same code that Sun/Oracle ships alongside the HotSpot VM, so we get as close to 100% compatibility as possible. "Excelsior JET for Mac OS X" has been the #1 feature request ever since Apple's switch to Intel CPUs, but the costs of porting AWT over to Cocoa and reproducing Apple's L&F still looked prohibitive. Maybe something will change as a result of Apple contributing to OpenJDK, but we may face a license incompatibility then...
9  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Lots of doors are being closed for Java on: 2011-02-17 10:59:42
Will try one more time to pester Excelsior. Last time I asked Dmitry they were looking at a low five-figure sum to get an ARM backend on their incredibly good AOT compiler/VM.
We are dead busy with the x64 port right now, or, more precisely, with paying down the principal of the technical debt accrued for 10 years... But I can tell you that ARM is likely to be the next target, especially if Microsoft keeps its promise to make Windows available on that platform.

Full-fledged iOS port is a different story though.

Dmitry Leskov
Excelsior LLC
10  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Excelsior jet standard vs. pro editions on: 2011-02-17 10:47:16
You are mixing "JVM" and "JRE".

The Excelsior JET Runtime contains, and has always contained a JVM, so applications compiled with it never required a second JVM. But, prior to version 4.0 only the applications not using Swing/AWT and compiled with the Professional Edition could work without the JRE. To cut the long story short, the reason was not the JVM, but the standard library.

The situation is indeed much different now. JRE is never required anymore because we have since licensed Java from Sun and included the standard Java SE library with Excelsior JET.

However, I would still recommend you stick with the Professional Edition, for two reasons:

1. It provides the capabilities to improve the startup time and reduce the download size of compiled applications.

2. It is available under a special licensing program. Under certain circumstances, it may cost you less than the list price of the Standard Edition.
11  Java Game APIs & Engines / OpenGL Development / Wanted: real-world apps to test & benchmark Excelsior JET 5.0 on: 2007-02-19 14:12:43
Dear LWJGL users,

I work for the company that makes the Java to native code compiler Excelsior JET. We have just posted a very early announcement of version 5.0, in which we shall introduce a feature that we think may be of particular interest to members of the LWJGL community.

In short, you will have a perfectly legal option to omit selected parts of  the Java SE API such as AWT and Swing when including the Java runtime with your LWJGL games and applications, thus substantially reducing the download size of your product.

Now we are seeking real applications to test and benchmark this new feature and overall performance. If you think optimizing and packaging your game, application, or research project with Excelsior JET may benefit your end users, please reply to this topic or email us.

In exchange, we offer:

  • free Excelsior JET 5.0 Pro licenses - to non-commercial projects
  • deep discounts on our products and services - to commercial product vendors
  • option to include your application in the Excelsior JET Gallery - to all participants

For complete information and for making comments and questions about Excelsior JET and this new feature, please refer to our blog.

With best regards,

Dmitry Leskov
Excelsior LLC
12  Game Development / Newbie & Debugging Questions / Re: What are my options for creating a windows .exe? on: 2006-07-29 07:54:57
6. Compile natively with Jet
Complexity: pretty fiddly
Advantages: can't use a lot of Java classes. Very high performance.
Disadvantages: Expensive. Use any AWT at all and you might as well bundle the whole VM. Difficult to work with.

The new Excelsior JET 4.5 challenges disadvantages 2 and 3 to a considerable extent and we have a special deal for Java game authors - check my announcement in the Tools forum
13  Java Game APIs & Engines / Tools Discussion / Re: [ANN] Excelsior JET 4.5 - reduce the download size of your game on: 2006-07-29 07:47:51
While my colleagues at Excelsior are helping you out, I'll post a short explanation of how Excelsior JET 4.5 reduces the download size here.

Consider two simple facts:

1. Any given Java application uses only a subset of the standard Java SE API. A server-side app is unlikely to use Swing, whereas a game is unlikely to use JDBC.

2. The Sun license does not permit you to subset the API when you redistribute the Java SE technology, even if it is a private copy that only your application will use.

What Excelsior JET global optimizer does is it analyzes your application jars and determines the subset of the standard API required for your application to work. It then compiles the classes of that subset together with your application classes and links them all into a single executable. When you package your application for distribution with Excelsior Installer selected as the back-end, the remaining API classes are compressed using pack200, and then all files are compressed using LZMA.

Now, suppose the the analyzer has failed to detect usage of a particular API class. This may happen if the class is not explicitly imported but loaded dynamically via refelction or JNI. No problem: the "unused" API classes will be unpack200ed during installation and the class will be JIT compiled. So this technique is safe and in full compliance with the license.

To sum it up, the less intensive is your usage of the standard API, the smaller the resulting installer will be. Perhaps the biggest save may be achieved by using  SWT and LWJGL respecitvely for GUI and 3D graphics, as that would enable the global optimizer to rule out AWT and Swing.

Any questions, please post here.

Finally, we have ideas on how to further reduce download size and disk footprint of Java applications without violating the license, so stay tuned!

14  Java Game APIs & Engines / Tools Discussion / [ANN] Excelsior JET 4.5 - reduce the download size of your game on: 2006-07-11 16:50:02
Excelsior JET, a JVM with Ahead-Of-Time compiler, has been updated to version 4.5.

New in this release:

1. Now Excelsior JET may help you reduce the download size of your Java applications, thanks to the brand new global optimizer and advanced compression algorithms.

2. The use of the global optimizer also reduces application memory usage, especially on Linux.

3. Excelsior Installer is now available on both Windows and Linux.

4. Ease-of-use enhancements, new installation toolkit features, and JIT compiler speedup are also among the major improvements.

Excelsior JET is certified Java Compatible on a number of Windows and Linux platforms. Added to the list in this release is SUSE Linux Enterprise Server 9.

Please visit our Web site for complete information or download your fully functional Excelsior JET 4.5 Evaluation Package.

Finally, our pricing targets corporate customers, but we are willing to trade discounts of up to 100% for assistance in spreading the word about our product.  Have you created a quality Java game that would benefit from being optimized and packaged by Excelsior JET? Would you consider telling others on your Web site, in the game docs, and/or elsewhere about those benefits? If yes, please contact us to discuss the opportunities.

Please feel free to forward this information to your friends and colleagues who you think might be interested in Excelsior JET.

With best regards,

Dmitry Leskov
Excelsior LLC
15  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Distributing Sun server-vm on: 2005-11-01 12:54:50
Compiling with JET is legal as long as you don't distribute parts of the Sun JRE with it, which you will have to if you use any AWT/Swing in your app. If you do, you have to ship the awt dll with your app to make it work, and if you ship that dll you have to bundle the rest of the JRE with it.
So it might make sense if you don't use any Sun JRE parts, otherwise it only makes sense if you absolutely need JET's performance.

The above was not quite true for the previous versions of Excelsior JET and does not apply at all to the latest Excelsior JET 4.0 which contains fully licensed Java SE API and makes executables that do not need the Sun JRE to run, no matter which APIs they use.
16  Java Game APIs & Engines / Tools Discussion / Re: NSIS installer on: 2005-07-25 09:46:08
Has anyone got a simple script for this that can check for java to be installed (including version number)? I'm pretty much just gettin started and I'm aware that their archives have some stuff, but it's rough finding a good starting point and I'm interested in what other people using it specifically for java projects use to deal with java's little intricacies. Having the installer install java if it's needed automatically would be pretty nice. If no one has anything like this I'll try to post the script I end up making (working off an example I found in their archive now).
Not sure if this has ready to use scripts, but if you are using Eclipse, it may be worth checking out anyway:
17  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Dynamic versus ahead of time compiler on: 2005-07-25 08:53:44
Assuming, that currently executed native code is influenced by the input to the application, the question would be which dedicated binaries produced by the JIT the Runtime should be cached?
If everything is compiled to native code, then application's input has no influence on that code in most cases.

JIT Caching has been present in Excelsior JET since 2001. If a class is loaded that does not match the cached version for any reason (bytecode change, different classloader, import dependency, etc.), it is simply recompiled. You may also recompile the cached classes into a single DLL for better performance and shorter startup.
18  Game Development / Performance Tuning / Re: Escape Analysis on: 2005-03-28 09:36:14
I'm in no position to argue what licensing schemes you should have, but a suggestion would be that you provide a free, case-by-case, no-support license for open source projects. The license could require the projects to explicitly state that the binary was produced with Jet, giving you free publicity for your product. I think both parties could benefit from such a license.

This is quite possible. As I said, we do not need money in all cases. Publicity is more important.

We think a bug in our product must be fixed regardless of whether the user who has encountered is a paying customer. So in fact we do provide support to all users, the differences are in priority, responce times, escalation level, etc.
19  Game Development / Performance Tuning / Re: Escape Analysis on: 2005-03-28 07:04:59
Cool. You don't have any plans to offer a free license for open source projects?

First of all, note that Excelsior is revenue-funded, and providing support costs money. So we have to be careful about giving away stuff if we want to preserve the quality of our support.

We have plans to offer a special license for non-commercial and non-institutional usage, regardless of whether the project is open source. Considering the first paragraph, it will be  cheap, but likely not free. But we would surely give it to you for free in exchange for something valuable to us. For instance, you may participate in our beta test program or promote our product on your Web site or elsewhere, etc.

We also have plans for subscriptions and pay-as-you-go licensing, so as to remove the upfront cost barrier on commercial usage patterns such as shareware.
20  Game Development / Performance Tuning / Re: Escape Analysis on: 2005-03-28 06:49:46
Can you give me some numbers?  Say against Java5, how much of an improvement do you see in your apps?  

We are running various benchmarks against the latest version of HotSpot client and server and JRockit right now and will publish them on our Web site soon. We will also publish all scripts, project files and instructions required to run the tests on your system.

If you do not trust vendor benchmarks, why not try it yourself against your own tests or, even better, a real app?
21  Game Development / Performance Tuning / Re: Escape Analysis on: 2005-03-28 06:04:33
<--- I recommend Jet, it really is as good as they claim. Pro version could be a little cheaper though eh?

We are running an v3.7 introductory offer by April 15th. Pro license price is 1/3 off, and you can get Windows and Linux versions together at the price of one of them. Upgrade prices are also reduced. If this is cheap enough, go download the eval, but mind that you have less than 20 days left. Smiley
22  Java Game APIs & Engines / Tools Discussion / [ANN] Excelsior JET 3.7 - Java VM + AOT compiler on: 2005-03-26 07:14:28
We have just released version 3.7 of Excelsior JET, a Java VM with AOT compiler, for Windows and Linux.

Major improvements since version 3.6:

- J2SE 5.0 API support

- New runtime optimized for parallel execution (Professional Edition only)

- Application performance improvements

Full list of new features and changes

Evaluation Package download

Introductory offer (valid until April 15th)
23  Game Development / Performance Tuning / Re: Escape Analysis on: 2005-03-26 07:07:31
For those interested in trying out escape analysis in Java today, we have just released Excelsior JET 3.7, which has escape analysis much improved and object explosion implemented.

24  Game Development / Performance Tuning / Re: performance 'hiccups' in IBM & BEA JVMs on: 2004-06-23 07:00:09
Let me know if you're still interested and what exactly I need to give you.

Sure we are interested. By the time we return from JavaOne (Monday July 5th), please prepare a complete system that works on HotSpot, and instructions or how to run it, check that it runs correctly and measure its performance (if applicable). Email me at dleskov at excelsior dash usa dot com when you are ready.

25  Game Development / Performance Tuning / Re: performance 'hiccups' in IBM & BEA JVMs on: 2004-06-18 07:13:57
I'll try to download the Linux version of Jet (sorry, should've mentioned the platform is Linux) when I get a chance and see how I go.  Problem is, there's so many bits to be compiled (web server, app server, etc) I think I'll struggle to get it all working successfully.

Well, this sounds very interesting. We are in need of some real-world Java server applications to evaluate the performance differences delivered by our product. Could you possibly provide your application to us (under an NDA?) We would set up the necessary project files and build scripts and email them back to you. No purchase obligations of course.

26  Game Development / Performance Tuning / Re: performance 'hiccups' in IBM & BEA JVMs on: 2004-06-17 05:55:54
I would say you need to profile your server's memory usage patterns. It seems full garbage collection cycles are initiated from time to time. Perhaps using a few pools instead of always allocating a new object will change things.

I would be interested in testing our product, Excelsior JET, against your app. It is  a Java VM with AOT compiler and it uses a synthetic GC algorithm with reasonably short pauses. But I won't be able to do that before July 10 or so, because we are about to release version 3.6 and then we shall present it at JavaOne. In the meantime, you are welcome to download the evaluation package and give it a try.
27  Game Development / Game Mechanics / Re: Physics performance challenge to J.Kesselman.. on: 2004-04-20 05:02:37
While you guys are bandying about how best to generate and visualize physics ( a much abused term if I may say so ) people in other domains are doing some fancy things with Java to test Java's number crunching ability to the fullest. Check out this link from my app.:
Will have to warn you that those pics are a little too big.

We plan to implement support for SSE2, etc. in future versions of our compiler and we would love to play with such a real-life Java number cruncher application then. If it is not going to be freely available, would it still be possible for us to get a copy?
28  Game Development / Game Mechanics / Re: Physics performance challenge to J.Kesselman.. on: 2004-04-19 07:01:17
Anyway I partially agree with Athomas that there is no point trying to convert C/C++ users.  Just make great games in Java and be happy.

There is no point for Java users do that, indeed. We are not talking religion or MLM here. But it makes much sense for Java vendors, led by Sun, so it is apparently Jeff's job, and part of my job too.

I would sign under the paragraphs of your post regarding the use of C++ and Java together as appropriate.

Still I think a community-developed Java Game Benchmark Suite would be a good thing, even if it only allows you to compare different Java implementations and/or hardware. Perhaps it could be built as SPEC JVM98, which is a collection of real life programs. Board game, collision detection, map generation, audio/video codec, AI, scripting, you name it.
29  Game Development / Game Mechanics / Re: Physics performance challenge to J.Kesselman.. on: 2004-04-18 12:33:01
Although it doesn't fit in with my original challenge to Sun and their JVM, in the interests of gaining knowledge it can play on the Java side, (you will still be limited to pure Java). However the challenge was to prove that Java can match native code performance across the primary platforms Jeff mentioned (Mac OS X and Win32), so you had better get porting your compiler.
Would you let us finish the Linux/x86 port first? Smiley More seriously, we have other targets in mind apart from the Mac.

Then, why should Sun be to blame about poor Java performance on Macs? Apple has licensed J2SE, go tell them to speed it up. Let's compare on platforms that Sun supports (though I doubt there are many Solaris gamers out there. Smiley )

In any case, it would be more interesting to compare on Win32 and PS2, but that brings us back to the major flaw in Jeff's "Java is good for cross-platform game development" statement - the shortage of JVMs for game consoles. C++ programmers caring about portability can get CodeWarrior for Win32, Mac, Linux(multiple CPUs), PS2, GameCube, Palm OS after all...

If you do have a Mac version, and are willing to throw in $500, great.
We would consider throwing in a JET Pro license. Would that do?
30  Game Development / Game Mechanics / Re: Physics performance challenge to J.Kesselman.. on: 2004-04-18 10:29:59
I just recalled that Sun were showcasing JET-compiled Alien Flux in one of their JavaOne booths last year. So JET should play on the Java side. Smiley
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