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1  Game Development / Game Play & Game Design / Re: New member: can I ask for some guidance? on: 2009-08-30 07:18:49
Hello Guys,

I am new and willing to learn - and this is my problem - there are so many things to learn, that I am overwhelmed. Can someone be so nice and point me to any up to date tutorials with information about Java game development?

 I just want to create something simple in the beginning, something to get myself used to 3d graphics in java. But all information that I find are old and not longer relevant.

I want to use JOGL for 3d graphics, I don't know where to start? What is the order of writing simple game engine? What I need to done in the first place?

I didn't put this post in JOGL section, because I would be grateful for any guidance, any up to date information regarding developing games in Java.

best regards,

You first should check out Slick if you don't mind 2D graphics.  Nothing beats it for an optimized 2D API in Java.

After that, the best 3D API comes in the form of the J Monkey Engine.  It specializes in hiding the LWJGL and JOGL APIs and forming a basis of ground work.

If you prefer to develop your own OpenGL application independently, you should consider that JOGL does better with windowed applications while LWJGL does full-screen better.

Have fun, and do what comes comfortably.
2  Java Game APIs & Engines / JOGL Development / Re: ? How do you Build JOGL from sources ? on: 2009-08-25 19:34:41
I'm trying to build JOGL from sources but I'm getting an incomplete build that is missing Windows and MacOS references.  I'm having to build JOGL on a Linux 64 bit platform because I was not compatible with any of the provided binaries.  When doing this I can SUCCESSFULLY create the libraries (jogl.jar and gluegen-rt.jar) and all static libraries as well and it works great. 

The main issue is that the jogl.jar does not include the windows or macos libraries and I'm not sure which flag or setting I'm missing that would enable me to build it with these included.

I have a similar issue with LWJGL that I got around by using its Ant script file.  I haven't spent enough time to examine what to put into a non-Ant build yet, but it is possible to compile the natives for other operating systems on a single platform without tweaking much.  Anyhow, I suggest checking for the existence of an Ant script for JOGL.
3  Java Game APIs & Engines / Tools Discussion / Re: which compiler (/IDE)? on: 2009-08-22 20:41:54
I've been programming for well over 5 years. If you call that inexperienced I'd call you an idiot.

I love how everyone bandwaggons to jerk each other off about how harsh I am on someone who asked a stupid question. Please, don't let me stop your sweaty session of love, keep going.

Okay, I will.  I'm not on your "bandwagon" or anybody else's.
4  Java Game APIs & Engines / JOGL Development / Re: Rotations Sequences on: 2009-08-22 20:27:24
Historical note: Euler angles have nothing to do with Euler...they should be called Rodrigues angles.  Euler (in modern terms) represented rotations as a log mapping of Quaternions (theta times V).  Many papers call "yaw, pitch, roll" ordering "Tait-Bryant angles"...which is also pretty goofy Tait was a die-hard quaternion-head at the center of the quaternion vs. vectors debate.

Euler apparently was one of the best note-takers among mathematicians, which helped the science come together in Europe and later the US of America.  I think he just explained a set of rules that allowed other theories to "plug-in" much like how Java can have software API libraries that plug into it.  In effect, his notes somehow aided with a transition from theory to law in public view.

I don't know if he receives too much credit, but a few notable mathematicians used his work for founding their own both in design and legally for income.

Remark: mathematicians/physicists/many 3D modellers  prefer Euler angles like xyz or zyx, since they usually look at coordinate systems where by convention the Z axis is pointing "upwards".  But in graphics hardware/OpenGL/D3D, the convention is that "Y is up". In that case, Euler angles like yxz are more natural.

Yeah, I don't think that debate will ever die.  On the Asia side of the planet, things tend to get read reversed and still make sense.  A Rubik's cube is very much like a 3D matrix.
5  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: John Carmack QuakeCon 09 Keynote on: 2009-08-22 20:09:08
I'm not arguing he's not talented. I'm just saying that
1) He's not really visionary
2) It's not just his technical achievements that make people listen to him.

One of his secrets that he revealed was that he read a lot of material from local universities and high schools.  He has this huge luck for discovering really young talent, which makes himself look good.  In other words, he knows how to invest in others.  Whether he does it in a good or bad manner, I don't know since wisdom comes in both equally good and evil varieties.  Like Bill Gates, he used other people's ideas and made them happen along with his own.

It just so happens that he had a friend who had connections for financial backing, and after Doom caught the attention of major corporations both in software and hardware, his product helped other products sell by presenting free content.

As far as Quake goes, his development team found themselves forced to listen and cooperate with their art studio team.  Quake had so many bugs, but the open source community cleaned up a lot somehow.  Someone in his group organization had the keen sense of keeping a clean divide between the free and non-free content.

Its odd how software developers are suppose to get paid more yet code goes to the ownership of others.  On the other hand, artists typically receive less pay, but their content has the highest protection in a premium environment.  In fact, artistic endeavors add the definition of premium to code in the first place.  John Carmack would be nowhere without artists, who happened to consist the bulk of his "visionaries."  After that, I guess luck took over.

6  Java Game APIs & Engines / Tools Discussion / Re: which compiler (/IDE)? on: 2009-08-22 19:44:35
CyanPrime - Your comment, I think, only indicates your own inexperience. Make sure you know what you're talking about before you start writing people off - especially when they've already professed to be a noon and they're just looking for a discussion. What does your comment add to the conversation? It doesn't. I personally use 3 IDEs, depending on the situation. They're not the same at all. Each optimizes your time in a different way, and although the coding remains the same the time saved is important, because as they say, time is money.

7  Java Game APIs & Engines / JOGL Development / Re: Rotations Sequences on: 2009-08-18 06:53:01
OpenGL supposedly takes an odd approach with how it works in regard to matrices.  While I haven't examined that portion of code recently to explain in detail, it holds objects in different virtual spaces with one I think as upside-down.  Perhaps you have come across that.  I don't remember its purpose, but I believe that it partially mimics the human eye in how it receives visual communication.

I've spent time with JOGL and LWJGL recently to not worry about "re-inventing the wheel" so to speak in that area of study.  You might consider an open-source API.
8  Java Game APIs & Engines / JOGL Development / Re: Rotations Sequences on: 2009-08-18 00:17:53
Euler lived as a very successful mathematician and inventor, but his skills in money-earning weren't terribly great.  A friend had covertly collected sums of earnings all from the profits off of Euler's work.  One day while feeling disappointed, Euler decided to travel to a relative out of state from boredom.  His friend stopped him, politely asking that he make a puzzle toy for a daughter.

Since Euler enjoyed circles, he decided to form a puzzle out of the rim of one.  He began to have fun to the point of accidentally discovering that certain multiples of flat lines could evenly join together.  We profit today in 3D graphics since "round" objects are really made up of a bunch of triangles.  This holds true even with NURBS.

The idea of a "unit circle" also applies to creating your own matrix.  If the math calculates wrongly, things will bend oddly out of shape during a turn of some sort.  A unit circle shows force applied to X and Y as a unit of 1.  Add a third dimension as Z, and you have yourself a sphere.

Notice that X, Y, and Z all have a unit of 1.  Basically, a matrix that allow circles also permits camera movement.  To induce movement, you might first test out graphing a circle on an X and Y graph.  With that complete, the third dimension Z will become compatible for your 3D matrix.
9  Game Development / Newbie & Debugging Questions / Re: How can I practice my Java skills? on: 2009-08-17 17:50:35
I was just trying to convey that biting off the scope of a typical A-list game is unwise for most indie developers.   I have no problem reducing my estimate of 500 man-years of work to match your estimate of 100 man-years of work.    Roll Eyes

Yes, quite good of you, but 100 more people-years should suffice.  We shouldn't forget women and children.
10  Game Development / Newbie & Debugging Questions / Re: How can I practice my Java skills? on: 2009-08-17 17:14:45
WoW took 100+ guys 5 years to finish.

Actually, the core of the game took less than a year to make.  All the content and debugging related to it took time.  It's that conflict when an artist wants something unavailable, but the feature somehow breaks the nice working code.  And of course, the publisher wants the combination invented sometime... yesterday.

I think that game's starting core only required one to three people, and I'm sure one of them didn't work directly for Blizzard.  Otherwise, all else seems true.
11  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: John Carmack QuakeCon 09 Keynote on: 2009-08-17 07:41:45
He may have a secret technology or business deal that hasn't been publicly exposed yet, which would give him leverage.
12  Game Development / Newbie & Debugging Questions / Re: How can I practice my Java skills? on: 2009-08-17 07:30:11
I have the basics down, but how do I practice? I dont have any basic projects im willing to practice or work on, most of the projects I try to do end up being too hard and I can never finish them... What should I do?

Start with something you like first until you find something you enjoy.  At that point, you will have something comfortable to you.  You can then proceed to build upon your previous successes, merging them into a single project.  Join communities that share your interests.  Play games.
13  Discussions / Business and Project Management Discussions / Re: Game Only online advertising on: 2009-08-15 17:44:43
will do, going to try out adsense and see how they perform, better than adbrite i hope!

I found the one advantage in AdBrite and BidVertiser is their relative ease in getting ads going for a new publisher.  I agree though that their ad content seems to not have much in common with mine, but I took the auto-accept method instead of weeding things out.  AdBrite has an easier time displaying probably because they put less on a page.  Also while their InLine ads sounded appealing, I had to opt against it since I don't want clutter.


Cas Smiley

I'll check into that.
14  Java Game APIs & Engines / Tools Discussion / Re: which compiler (/IDE)? on: 2009-08-14 14:51:35
On the subject of Ant, it also works very well for when someone has trouble compiling code and a release hasn't been published yet.
15  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Free banner ad display on: 2009-08-14 00:10:55
Hello everyone. I have been developing a small website which hosts a simple skill game. I want to make the site publically available but i was wondering if anyone wanted me to display a vertical banner ad for free (120x600) while i work out what advertising scheme to use (so it will only be for 1-5 days anyway). Preferably it would be an ad for something similar, ie online free/skill game(s) and looks good! Let me know asap if anyone is intrested.

Thanks! Cool

You might explore Drupal or Joomla.  Both projects have example banners I think.
16  Java Game APIs & Engines / Tools Discussion / Re: which compiler (/IDE)? on: 2009-08-14 00:04:55
gonna tell ya what i think about this new ide.

I am interested in your opinion.  It has been a year since I used it.  I thought about writing a guide regarding it and SVN.

PS: i edited the topic where it says compiler.

PS2: i see that anyone uses notepad+java's shit, i guess im not the only one who feels its hard to use even for a "hello world" application

"Notepad" and other similar software perform well for quickly designed console applications.  I believe IDEs exceed with GUI designs since frameworks like Swing support this.  JSP may highlight the difference.
17  Java Game APIs & Engines / Tools Discussion / Re: which compiler (/IDE)? on: 2009-08-13 23:40:25
I prefer Netbeans.  I started out with Eclipse (well, actually Emacs - but that's another matter!) but for the last few years I feel that NB has been getting better and Eclipse has been getter fatter and more fragmented.

I agree with this.  I'm sticking with the Ganymede 3.4.2 version since Galileo 3.5 and beyond can't run on my computer for some reason.  That seems odd to me since my software tends to run next to the cutting edge of release times.  Ubuntu though produces some weird compatibility problems.  Still, it's stable and never crashes in my normal usage.  ...I'm well-practiced at crashing Linux too.   Grin  It probably comes from my experiences with Windows before Vista!   Roll Eyes
18  Java Game APIs & Engines / JOGL Development / Re: Can JOGL extension be downloaded lazily? on: 2009-08-13 15:58:47
While I'm not comfortable with JNLP yet, I think the answer is "yes."  The OpenGL "natives" might hide in the extension.  If true and requiring OpenGL immediately at execution time, "loading lazily" will not work well.  Otherwise if a UI like Swing existing separately from OpenGL comes first, it might safely happen.  That comes with the assumption of course that OpenGL starts a few moments later probably from the UI serving a menu of choices.
19  Java Game APIs & Engines / Tools Discussion / Re: which compiler (/IDE)? on: 2009-08-13 15:32:28
Eclipse is known for its greediness of memory.  NetBeans uses less system resources, but I still prefer Eclipse.

which compiler do you use?

Minor correction:  The IDE makes your code work easier.  The compiler is usually what you can use from the CMD command-line, and the IDE works with the compiler for you.
20  Game Development / Networking & Multiplayer / Re: Question about online multiplayer games ? on: 2009-07-28 03:37:45
I jack your attention span.
21  Game Development / Game Play & Game Design / Re: viewing copyrighted material question? on: 2009-07-28 03:16:07
"Sharing" something that leaves an impression is supposedly legal, but wide-spread distribution or commercialization go into the grey area of licensing fees.  If you're doing obvious marketing even through word-of-mouth, then that covers under distribution policies.  The other category should be obvious.  Creative Commons promotes putting artistic things into software as long as you notify the artist and don't make a profit.  ("Donations" or "tips" are a grey area.)

As far as protecting personal artistry, anything on the Internet is considered "promotional."  If a product is an image, a reseller may reduce the size down to 5% or less to "thumb-nail" size only.  For books or derivatives like software, the first "chapter" in a modified and shortened format will usually reside on a server.  Putting a full product on a server without appropriate protection invites theft.  Valuable digital content usually resides on a secondary server under better surveillance.
22  Discussions / Suggestions / Re: Reduce Forum Count on: 2009-07-26 05:27:09
23  Discussions / Suggestions / Re: Reduce Forum Count on: 2009-07-26 05:25:19
I despise the child boards tbh, too hard to navigate, most of the forums here have little traffic so it might as well be lumped together.

I agree with this.  If possible, I think it sufficient to merge two inactive forum sections.

(Quoting myself is crazy.)
24  Games Center / Archived Projects / Re: Moderation or no moderation? on: 2009-07-26 05:10:02
The other realistic way to distribute stuff is platform specific installers. It doesn't hurt and it's not complete rocket science, although I confess that I've got no idea how to make something that installs on Linux reliably. If I did, I would be embedding a hacked VM in it which might make life easier.

Cas Smiley

Simply double-clicking the jar file in Linux can do the job.  Otherwise, a SH file is just like a BAT file in Windows.  Most of the time, right-clicking the item to run and accessing its Properties will have a tab at the top that says "Permissions."  An item there should say something to the effect of "Allow executing as a program."  If checked, then all should be good to go for double-clicking.

If you follow some basic rules it's really not hard to have webstart/applet/exe versions of your game all running from the same identical code, so there's very little excuse IMHO. Webstart is good for easy deployment for java-savy developers like around here, but for your average windows user it blows hard.

Is that because so much clicking is required just to run a Web Start software?  I noticed a few issues with the executable.  For multi-clicking, I figure a statement to participants might suffice.
25  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Another language feature I'd like on: 2009-07-26 04:56:05
Wow!  People are actually defending javascript... I feel like I've stepped into an alternate universe.  I guess shit just doesn't smell bad here  Smiley.

I seriously didn't see that coming!  I expected everyone would chime in with annecdotes like kaffiene. "crap beyond belief" was spot on.  I just didn't realize it was a debateable point.  Maybe next I'll learn the Earth is flat and there is no such thing as gravity.

It's not so much that javascript can't do things... it just that it is a really bad choice for doing most things, given the alternatives.  The tool support, available libraries, etc. are all part of what makes the alternatives better.   Coding in javascript is undeniably more error-prone and unproductive.

JavaScript like many other technologies just has different implementations.  I think Netscape and its initial investors supported the concept of others making their own versions back in the day to spread what it could run on.  You may want to consider the highly reputed jQuery.

Why not put the effort into the more respectable platforms that are already available for web-based applications.   The clear choices are Flash and Java.. with Silverlight bullying it's way in via the brute force of a OS monopoly (It may be good, but would it gain the same market share without Microsoft jamming it down our throats?)

JavaScript has been around for a while, and it has been found to run on web browsers that most people haven't heard of or even seen over in the generic area of Asia.
26  Games Center / Archived Projects / Re: Moderation or no moderation? on: 2009-07-24 19:04:29
What do you mean?

Make an .exe that does the C equivalent of exec("javaws.exe http://..../my_file.jnlp");.

It will be completely self contained (as in: 1 file to distribute and 1 file to doubleclick), as the zipfile is on a remote server.

I had not considered that.  I know a couple of libraries exist as wrappers for at least the Windows platform.  I had been exploring JNLP as a sort of replacement for executable jars, but I haven't found much of the advantages yet.  I just am aware that it can operate similarly.  I seem to need a SH or BAT file on occasions for those with difficulty of running an executable jar.  It adds complexity.
27  Games Center / Archived Projects / Re: Moderation or no moderation? on: 2009-07-24 18:48:55
I'm afraid it can't operate self-contained - you'd still need to provide a jnlp file, and a bunch of jars, inside a zip. Sort of defeating the point of Webstart.

Cas Smiley

Actually, that's what I had in mind.  Code can still go in "main" for searching natives, class paths, resources, and whatever.  For design purposes, part of the program could be local while another part serves as a thick or thin client maybe.  I guess it's a different subject though.
28  Games Center / Archived Projects / Re: Moderation or no moderation? on: 2009-07-24 18:45:44
(Let's see if this ruffles any feathers... )  Though it may defeat part of the purpose, I thought that JNLP can operate self-contained without requiring a server.  I don't know yet if that would classify it as an executable jar though.  Also, I just link straight to "javaws" on my system, and I have no problems.  I don't know how that might work on a Mac since I haven't explored the naming conventions.
29  Java Game APIs & Engines / JOGL Development / Re: How to achieve an animation of a 3D model? on: 2009-07-24 18:37:03
OBJ is suppose to be a pain, but it can support many things if done properly.  The "support" part can be difficult to track.  This works well for "bone chain" exporting.  I dare say Collada is both experimental yet promising.  Don't delve too deep with it yet.  3DS is so proprietary that it almost makes me cross-eyed, but yet, it doesn't.  Results involve either thoughts of praise or horror.  It can replace the need to visit scary movies if you're into that activity.  Questions usually involve, "Why isn't my model in the software looking like the one in my legal copy of 3D Studio Max?!!"  DAE can be a mixed bag of different tricks.  It's good to explore if you can already guess what software format it comes from.

....And then there's ye ole MD5.  It works for humanoids.  No, not "checksum" unless you enjoy it.
30  Java Game APIs & Engines / JOGL Development / Re: JOGL2 - what where when why? on: 2009-07-24 17:41:37
I haven't been here in a while, so JOGL2 is news to me.  Can someone point me at a site or page that explains what it is, what the goals are and what the timeline is?  My apologies if this is somehow obvious, but it isn't obvious that there is any real info on this site and googling doesn't produce any hits either.  I see it listed as the current nightly build, but I am more curious about what it is and timeline, etc. than the actual source.

TIA, Ric

For a summary, Sun experienced a transition in business tactics.  To search for more information, you might check into their integration with Oracle technology and more.  JOGL turned more community-centric than previous, but Sun retains licensing to a great extent.  In my opinion, the advantage arrived in bug fixes.  Another reason debatably exists.  This link has other details.
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