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  TUER: Truly Unusual Experience of Revolution, FPS using JOGL  (Read 203547 times)
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Offline gouessej
« Reply #720 - Posted 2010-03-22 21:22:14 »

I tried the newest version, and I only had an FPS ~7, and it was pretty jumpy.
It is the same for me.

but aside from that the collision seemed to work(well, sometimes it glitched, but that is probably cause of low fps).
It comes from a rounding error, it is my fault, it is fixed, I just have to make a new build.


although I wouldnt worry bout fps too much, cause this computer sux, it only has 1.33 GHz dual core....
It is my fault too, my cells-and-portals algorithm is not used there...

Thank you for testing Cheesy

bobjob reproduced the bug of the menu that Hansdampf noticed at first.

Offline gouessej
« Reply #721 - Posted 2010-03-23 11:25:12 »

Hi!

The new build fixes the lack of accuracy in the collision system but sometimes the weapon goes through the walls  Undecided

Offline gouessej
« Reply #722 - Posted 2010-03-25 10:32:43 »

Hi!

The new build allows to display correctly the label concerning objects that you can pick up. If you don't see any change, go to the Java Web Start configuration, suppress the application, go to the "removed applications" section and reinstall it (it is faster than emptying the whole cache and restarting the whole download).

I'm going to fix the big of the menu and to increase the accuracy of the collisions system.

I would like to know your opinion (h3ckboy?) about some new features that I would like to implement:
- use 2 identical weapons at the same time, one in each hand (like in GoldenEye 007)
- drive a robot
- allow to configure the sensitivity in the "controls" menu
- "teleporter"

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Offline h3ckboy

JGO Coder


Medals: 5



« Reply #723 - Posted 2010-03-25 17:24:43 »

for the 4 weapons, sounds cool.

by robot, do you mean vehicle??

DEFINITELY

and by that do youo mena an item or like a teleporter platform?
Offline gouessej
« Reply #724 - Posted 2010-03-25 23:13:05 »

The bug of the menu came from Ardor3D and has been fixed by Joshua "renanse" Slack:
http://www.ardor3d.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=626&sid=32f860cbbd8837ef0fa3b4ed0ee03f8d

for the 4 weapons, sounds cool.
4? There are 6 weapons :s

by robot, do you mean vehicle??

DEFINITELY
Yes, I would like to add a small mechanical warrior.

and by that do youo mena an item or like a teleporter platform?
I mean a teleporter platform. My English is quite limited sometimes.

Offline h3ckboy

JGO Coder


Medals: 5



« Reply #725 - Posted 2010-03-28 08:19:11 »

4? There are 6 weapons :s

sry I typoed I meant "as for the 2 weapons..." casue you were talking about dual weaponry
Offline gouessej
« Reply #726 - Posted 2010-03-28 11:47:13 »

Hi!

sry I typoed I meant "as for the 2 weapons..." casue you were talking about dual weaponry
Ok.

As some users complained about the low frame rate (and even a freeze when leaving the game) especially on some Intel graphics chips, I will have to improve the performance once more but I will implement some small improvements before switching to this difficult task in order to allow you to see some changes. JFPSM already does a very little part of the job, it won't be as difficult as with the 2 other versions except if I generalize the approach.

Edit.: it is now possible to use 2 identical weapons at the same time  Grin

Online EgonOlsen
« Reply #727 - Posted 2010-03-28 22:12:30 »

I've tried the experimental version...it's slow as hell (around 5fps) and flickers like crazy. It's like every second frame is all back. That happens right from the start, not just in game. (Core 2 Quad@3.2Ghz, Ati HD 5870-1GB, Catalyst 9.12, Windows Vista Ultimate 32bit).

Offline gouessej
« Reply #728 - Posted 2010-03-28 22:30:30 »

I've tried the experimental version...it's slow as hell (around 5fps) and flickers like crazy. It's like every second frame is all back. That happens right from the start, not just in game. (Core 2 Quad@3.2Ghz, Ati HD 5870-1GB, Catalyst 9.12, Windows Vista Ultimate 32bit).
Thank you for testing. I don't know what is wrong and it should not be so slow. I will give it a try under Windows Vista tomorrow. Maybe something is wrong with Ardor3D.

Edit.: EgonOlsen, are you sure you used the very experimental version relying on Ardor3D? If you used the experimental version relying on JMonkeyEngine 2, I'm not surprised by such bugs.

Edit.2: someone has just tested with Windows XP, ATI Radeon 1150 M Xpress, it is very slow (7 FPS) but he has not yet noticed any flickering. Someone else will test with an ATI Radeon 4850 HD tomorrow.

Edit.3: on some machines, the game seems to get launched twice whereas it should not... Maybe it has something to do with Java Web Start. A move to IzPack is still planned.

Online EgonOlsen
« Reply #729 - Posted 2010-03-29 13:16:26 »

I was using this link: http://tuer.sourceforge.net/very_experimental/tuer.jnlp

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Offline gouessej
« Reply #730 - Posted 2010-03-29 13:45:10 »

Thank you. As I said:
Edit.3: on some machines, the game seems to get launched twice whereas it should not... Maybe it has something to do with Java Web Start.
I don't know the root cause.

Offline gouessej
« Reply #731 - Posted 2010-03-30 13:05:55 »

EgonOlsen, please can you tell me which version of Java you used for the test?

Edit.: someone gave me an idea that could be very useful to improve hugely the performances of TUER... I feel so stupid, it is so simple. This idea consists in using glTexParameter, GL_REPEAT and texture coordinates greater than 1 to reduce hugely the triangle count of a level.  Grin Expect a considerable boost from this when it is ready  Shocked, 60 FPS even on a crappy graphics chip?

Online EgonOlsen
« Reply #732 - Posted 2010-03-30 20:23:46 »

Sure, it was Java 6 Update 18.

Offline gouessej
« Reply #733 - Posted 2010-03-30 22:02:19 »

Sure, it was Java 6 Update 18.
Thank you very much, I'm going to compare this version with the versions of Java that do not cause this problem. Someone else reproduced your problem with Windows 7 64 bits. Nobody recently succeeded in launching TUER without reproducing the bug you reported under Windows 7. One person reproduced this bug on Mac OS X but only once. Nobody succeeded in reproducing it under Linux. EgonOlsen, when you launch the game, does it launch several instances of the JVM or does it only create several full-screen windows?

Offline Markus_Persson

JGO Wizard


Medals: 14
Projects: 19


Mojang Specifications


« Reply #734 - Posted 2010-03-31 09:59:19 »

 Huh

Play Minecraft!
Offline gouessej
« Reply #735 - Posted 2010-03-31 12:48:51 »

Huh
Please can you tell me what you mean? I do my best. Fixing a bug that I cannot reproduce is difficult, isn't it?

Offline Markus_Persson

JGO Wizard


Medals: 14
Projects: 19


Mojang Specifications


« Reply #736 - Posted 2010-03-31 13:48:33 »

It's just puzzling, is all.

TUER is not a good or interesting game, and it's plagued by horrible design decisions throughout. If you were treating it as your testbed for learning programming, it'd be fine, but you seem to have much grander plans from what I can see in this thread.

You refuse to listen to good advice, blame bugs and other problems on external factors, and charge ahead blindly without any sense of critical thinking or taste.

Play Minecraft!
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 748
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #737 - Posted 2010-03-31 15:15:55 »

Aww.. let him have his 25 pages of fame. Besides that, TUER is used in education in France, the French have rather high standards. It also brings back the retro feeling of games from 1990 at framerates usable for visual debugging. Give it time, it will shine.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline SimonH
« Reply #738 - Posted 2010-03-31 16:00:28 »

Heh, persistence is a virtue! Tortoise & the haricot & all that...

People make games and games make people
Offline gouessej
« Reply #739 - Posted 2010-03-31 16:19:36 »

It's just puzzling, is all.

TUER is not a good or interesting game, and it's plagued by horrible design decisions throughout. If you were treating it as your testbed for learning programming, it'd be fine, but you seem to have much grander plans from what I can see in this thread.

You refuse to listen to good advice, blame bugs and other problems on external factors, and charge ahead blindly without any sense of critical thinking or taste.
I'm not blind, I have no access to Windows 7, I have no certitude concerning the root cause of the bug EgonOlsen and some other people reported. I have never said that he is wrong. I have no great plan, I want to get something "admissible" in some years. I'm aware of the ugliness of my game, I'm not an artist. I disagree with you about the horrible design decisions (I admit that the choice of JMonkeyEngine made me waste some precious time). TUER works better with OpenGL than without it, I don't see such a choice as an horrible design decision.

Minecraft is a success but it does not give you the right to give me any lesson or at least, I'm free to ignore them.

Aww.. let him have his 25 pages of fame. Besides that, TUER is used in education in France, the French have rather high standards. It also brings back the retro feeling of games from 1990 at framerates usable for visual debugging. Give it time, it will shine.
It might be only a tiny fame... TUER is used in a lesson in Portugal and it has been used in several projects in France. I have never wanted to make a clone of Crysis or Doom 3. TUER is even worse than Doom 1 Sad

Heh, persistence is a virtue! Tortoise & the haricot & all that...
Thanks.

Offline Markus_Persson

JGO Wizard


Medals: 14
Projects: 19


Mojang Specifications


« Reply #740 - Posted 2010-03-31 16:47:42 »

I have no great plan, I only want to get something "admissible" in some years.

What's your plan for getting there?

A while back in this thread, you said something about people judging the game from and outdated version of the game, and I asked you to post a recent screenshot. You posted this:


(Fullsize)

From a quick glance:
* The level geometry is extremely basic, and the roof and ceiling appear to be fixed height (this matches what I've seen when testing the game)
* The camera appears to be clipping through the ceiling
* You've got a working model importer, which is nice. But there's no lighting, and one of the models is untextured.
* The models themselves appear to be prefab generic models
* I can only assume that the textures are placeholders.. I hope so.
* 5 fps.

Play Minecraft!
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 343
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #741 - Posted 2010-03-31 16:53:17 »

Gouessej, have you ever considered abandoning TUER and starting completely afresh with a reasonable plan and an objective? As in "as good as Doom" or even "as good as Wolfenstein"? And then working from first principles one step at a time until your game really is as good as those games at each step of the way. Starting with game init, through the title screen menu, through to the game itself, etc.

Cas Smiley

Offline Orangy Tang

JGO Kernel


Medals: 56
Projects: 11


Monkey for a head


« Reply #742 - Posted 2010-03-31 17:11:54 »

It's funny watching gouessej running around chasing his tail over obscure compatibility/launching issues when the actual gameplay is so horribly broken. I seem to remember playing Tuer originally and at least being able to move around, shoot enemies, have them shoot back and complete a level. Yet now the movement is glitchy, collision detection is broken, weapons don't work and there's no enemies in sight, and that's not to mention the strange work-in-progress artifacts lying around everywhere (like the untextured models).

Cas' suggestion of starting from scratch is probably the most practical and productive, because it looks like Tuer is just going backwards.

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Offline gouessej
« Reply #743 - Posted 2010-03-31 17:31:36 »

It's funny watching gouessej running around chasing his tail over obscure compatibility/launching issues when the actual gameplay is so horribly broken. I seem to remember playing Tuer originally and at least being able to move around, shoot enemies, have them shoot back and complete a level. Yet now the movement is glitchy, collision detection is broken, weapons don't work and there's no enemies in sight, and that's not to mention the strange work-in-progress artifacts lying around everywhere (like the untextured models).

Cas' suggestion of starting from scratch is probably the most practical and productive, because it looks like Tuer is just going backwards.
The alpha version (the version you're talking about) still works. TUER does not get backward, I need more TIME.

I won't start any other project, I will go on working on TUER.

Offline DzzD
« Reply #744 - Posted 2010-03-31 19:09:59 »

I got same issue then Hansdampf & Markus_Persson on Vista (wrong texture), I suppose that you have a problem in your opengl states, that's will explain why some texture does not appear and or wrong textures are sometime applied to models.

Offline gouessej
« Reply #745 - Posted 2010-03-31 19:33:46 »

What's your plan for getting there?

A while back in this thread, you said something about people judging the game from and outdated version of the game, and I asked you to post a recent screenshot. You posted this:


(Fullsize)

From a quick glance:
* The level geometry is extremely basic, and the roof and ceiling appear to be fixed height (this matches what I've seen when testing the game)
* The camera appears to be clipping through the ceiling
* You've got a working model importer, which is nice. But there's no lighting, and one of the models is untextured.
* The models themselves appear to be prefab generic models
* I can only assume that the textures are placeholders.. I hope so.
* 5 fps.
The roof and ceiling height can he changed in JFPSM, the camera doesn't clip through the ceiling anymore, this is not my importer (it comes from Ardor3D), I'm not an artist so I prefer using existing models for the moment, I still use Vincent's textures and I get a low frame rate because I have still a very slow machine with a big screen.

Gouessej, have you ever considered abandoning TUER and starting completely afresh with a reasonable plan and an objective?
I will never consider abandoning this project and obviously it is not a commercial project, I think I disagree with you about what is reasonable and what is not.

As in "as good as Doom" or even "as good as Wolfenstein"? And then working from first principles one step at a time until your game really is as good as those games at each step of the way. Starting with game init, through the title screen menu, through to the game itself, etc.
This looks like a little bit my plan. If you look at the very experimental version, you notice that I began with improving the introduction scene, etc... In my humble opinion, it is reasonable but I don't deny I made some wrong decisions especially concerning the use of JMonkeyEngine. It is an excellent engine but I should have used it with LWJGL (but the bug of the straight lines has been fixed only very recently) or I should have chosen a better engine that relies on JOGL instead of wasting my time in fixing some bugs in JME 2.0 whereas these fixes have become useless (people who want to use JOGL with JME use JME 3).

I won't start another project from scratch. I want to go on developing TUER. Thank you for your suggestion.

It's funny watching gouessej running around chasing his tail over obscure compatibility/launching issues when the actual gameplay is so horribly broken. I seem to remember playing Tuer originally and at least being able to move around, shoot enemies, have them shoot back and complete a level. Yet now the movement is glitchy, collision detection is broken, weapons don't work and there's no enemies in sight, and that's not to mention the strange work-in-progress artifacts lying around everywhere (like the untextured models).

Cas' suggestion of starting from scratch is probably the most practical and productive, because it looks like Tuer is just going backwards.
Do you remember why the default version that gets launched on my website is the alpha version of TUER (the version you're talking about with working enemies, etc...)? The alpha version is still online because this is my choice, a logical choice. While the very experimental version is not at least as good as the alpha version, it won't replace it. TUER is not going backward, a playable version is still available, the very experimental version is just not ready to be considered as a working game. Therefore, you don't teach me anything.

However, I have to remind you some things concerning my small progresses, TUER is just going forward in the following aspects:
- it is now possible to look up and down
- the introduction scene is really better
- the ability of picking up objects in the alpha version was buggy whereas it works fine in the very experimental version
- there was only one weapon in the alpha version whereas there are 6 weapons in the very experimental version
- the robots were flat (2D) in the alpha version whereas all enemies are in 3D in the very experimental version
- it is now possible to take one weapon per hand
- unlike what you said, the collision system (that has been implemented in only a few hours) works quite fine but it is still incomplete

I admit that there is no artificial intelligence and the weapons are not yet working. I need more time.

You refuse to listen to good advice, blame bugs and other problems on external factors, and charge ahead blindly without any sense of critical thinking or taste.
For example, the bug of the menu came from RowLayout, a class of Ardor3D and it has been fixed. Therefore, I was right, I wasn't blaming bugs on external factors. While I don't change anything in my source code and I get a regression, I find it logical to assume that the problem might come from external tools.

I got same issue then Hansdampf & Markus_Persson on Vista (wrong texture), I suppose that you have a problem in your opengl states, that's will explain why some texture does not appear and or wrong textures are sometime applied to models.
One model is white because it has no texture but the bug Hansdampf noticed has been fixed, some JPG images were missing in the main JAR, it was my fault. If some weapons still have no texture, empty your cache and reinstall the game. Did you test it with Windows 7 too? Thank you very much for testing it Wink

Edit.: someone gave me an idea that could be very useful to improve hugely the performances of TUER... I feel so stupid, it is so simple. This idea consists in using glTexParameter, GL_REPEAT and texture coordinates greater than 1 to reduce hugely the triangle count of a level.  Grin Expect a considerable boost from this when it is ready  Shocked, 60 FPS even on a crappy graphics chip?
I quote myself. I'm implementing this thing. It is a bit difficult but very promising  Grin

If someone really wants to help me, please give it a try under Windows 7 and tell me which version of Java you use.

Online EgonOlsen
« Reply #746 - Posted 2010-03-31 20:26:53 »

EgonOlsen, when you launch the game, does it launch several instances of the JVM or does it only create several full-screen windows?
No, it launches only one time and opens only one screen.

Offline gouessej
« Reply #747 - Posted 2010-03-31 21:46:03 »

No, it launches only one time and opens only one screen.
Thank you for this information. Only bobjob succeeded in launching and using successfully TUER with Windows 7 once. I have modified the depth bits (OpenGL see GLCapabilities) and I'm trying to remove some parts of the code that might force the OpenGL context to become current when it shouldn't. I will try to submit a fix and update the JARs before midnight (French time). I don't even understand why I don't reproduce this bug.

Offline gouessej
« Reply #748 - Posted 2010-04-02 15:32:04 »

Hi!

Edit.: someone gave me an idea that could be very useful to improve hugely the performances of TUER... I feel so stupid, it is so simple. This idea consists in using glTexParameter, GL_REPEAT and texture coordinates greater than 1 to reduce hugely the triangle count of a level.  Grin Expect a considerable boost from this when it is ready  Shocked, 60 FPS even on a crappy graphics chip?
Time has come to explain what I meant more precisely. The image below shows the first level of TUER in Blender:

Actually, each square composing the floor, the ceiling and the walls is explicitly computed. I mean that one quad is used for each square even though they are adjacent and identical.

A French artist accustomed to use modelers showed me this:

He explained to me that he used only a very few quads to do this. Unlike me, he used only one quad for several adjacent squares using the same textures.


Currently the first room is composed of 80 squares on the floor, 80 squares on the ceiling and 32 squares on the walls (= 192 squares). Therefore, 384 triangles are used. By using his suggestion, only 14 triangles will be necessary to draw the same things, I will only have to use texture coordinates greater than 1 with GL_REPEAT. Now I assume you understand why I'm impatient to make it work. Of course, another optimization will be implemented for more complex rooms.

Offline ryanm

Senior Member


Projects: 1
Exp: 15 years


Used to be bleb


« Reply #749 - Posted 2010-04-02 16:03:52 »

I would be absolutely stunned to learn that transforming and lighting 1000ish vertices is a bottleneck here.
Are you sure this will help?
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