A call to all game developers of any genre

[Scarzzurs]

I already have JGO in my new website's link section. I'll see if i can fit the banner in.
I'd be great if JGO had a page with the banners that explained how to help advertise it, because i remember looking for that page when it got on the link page on my new website. However, i get very little pageviews myself, so i'm not sure how much help it will do. :-)

However, while i can't remember why, i do have a feel that JGO is a dead project, where requests and ideas are ignored.
Regardless of it being justified or not i think you should look into why i felt this way in the first place. A bit of detective work to do :-)

- Scarzzurs

[bobjob]

Chopped off Duke: he makes the button look to busy.
Cut off the top back line: I think it takes away to smoothness of the button.

My Project Page

But most importantly there is a gramatical error: "a the"

[brackeen]

To reiterate what others have said, JGT doesn't offer much value to consumers. Consumers will only come to the site if you offer specific value, like in-depth reviews (jayisgames) or quick links to the newest games on the internet (addictinggames). Consumers won't care what technology the games are, and might even be peeved if the site excludes their favorite flash games.

That said, it can be a highly valued resource for Java game developers. Highlighting the best quality Java games will encourage other Java developers to do better. (That's one reason why Flash games are usually better - more competition forces developers to do better). And games that include source code can help Java game developers learn. If you're going to go that route, though, you'll need to also link to tutorials, demos, howtos, etc.

(To nit-pick, my UX gripe with the site is you have no idea what you're going to get when you click "Play." An applet? A webpage with a download link? A direct download? A JNLP? Something that requires a trust dialog? Something 4K or something 40MB? There's no clue. The "play" button appearance should in some way communicate what experience the user is going to get.)

Games published by our own members! Go get 'em!

[noblemaster]

First of all, I'd like to say that the JGT is not dead! I just didn't get around to implement some new functionality. The goal is to make it more interactive and also make it easier for people to post comments and play games. I am working on games of my own, so my apologies if things are progressing slowly at the moment 

Also, I am little confused as to why people still argue about the fact that the Java Game Tome is about Java!? The whole point of the site is to have an alternative to what else is out there. I don't hear anyone bickering about Kongregate that only uses Flash for that matter. Or, what would have been the point making another site like jayisgames or addictinggames? Consider it an extension to JGO if you like with the goal to get players play our games? Now, the Java Game Tome has its limitations but at least it is unique in its ways.


I also put some banners to use onto the FAQ page: http://www.javagametome.com/faq.html

[TheAnalogKid]

Thanks Kingaschi for the banners. I'll link back from my site soon for sure.

There're some different types of negative comments about JGT. The main one I retain is the fact that Java is emphasized in the game site, which doesn't fit well from the consumer perspective. While Java game developers can feel proud about that, unfortunately the Java name can and I'm sure still has a bad connotation to the consumer. Long time ago, the slowness and bad client side integration of Java has made huge damage to the reputation of the technology, and for justified reasons during many years. Fortunately and obviously these weaknesses were solved several years ago and with the advent of Java 6u10+, the situation can only improve. But the bad Java reputation on the client side still persist more or less. Having said that, I'm seriously wondering if JGT should be renamed by removing the word Java in the new name. OK I already hear people on this thread complaining that I should spread word on Java everywhere and not being afraid of advertising it. To those people, please reconsider my arguments here.

To continue in this way, I have the strong belief that in life when you've made something really good, it shows by itself. And this principle applies to good and great Java games too obviously. Then having those games on JGT and having the capacity to advertise the site, you build slowly good reputation about Java games. People will start realizing that Java is doing amazing things in games. Not all Java games are good or great on JGT? Yes that's true but not an issue here; JGT has a rating system. The probably missing thing about not enough good games (and here I don't want to insult anybody...there're varied levels of experienced game developers) is how to categorize them. Categories/sections like  prototype, amateur, pro, in development, beta, etc. Having games of low quality doesn't mean that great games can't coexist with such as system. The site needs to make clear that not all games are from pros or commercials.

EDIT: I now link back JGT from Fun Toboggan (my site): http://www.freewebs.com/jeromeblouin/links.htm

[hexatronic]

I've not posted much here but it looks like a relatively healthy online community compared to some others I've had the misfortune to be part of.

To be honest I am a professional Java developer in real life so I don't expect to learn much Java coding stuff here.

To reiterate what's been said, Java games development is not that different from games dev in some other language. We use it cos it's a great language with great support, features and libraries and amazing portability. But still, most games development is just generic software development, you are good at it if you are a good engineer generally, and bad at it if you are not, not really that much to do with Java. Even in those areas where games development is a bit specialised, e.g. graphics, chances are if you're using java you're just using a binding to another technology, e.g. OpenGL, so you would go on OpenGL forums to figure out any issues you had.

But it's fine -- there are just enough java-game specific issues to keep the forum going and let's face it we get slagged off pretty badly by developers using other languages (java is still widely but wrongly thought of as an inefficient, quiche language) so we might as well stick together!

I have tried to give a bit of constructive feedback on a few different games here and elsewhere. I think it's good to give encouragement to others and also I am interested in seeing novel gameplay ideas being developed.

I anticipate that I will have problems getting feedback on my project, because although it is complete / fairly polished as a multiplayer game, it is hard to get people to commit to be online at the same time. I am now switching focus to the single player aspects of my project, I think this will greatly increase the likelihood of a download.

josh

[princec]

The portability is complete shit. Don't fool yourself!

Cas

[hexatronic]

The portability is complete shit. Don't fool yourself!

Cas

Write once - test everywhere!

But it is more portable than most other environments.

I had a pretty annoying issue recently porting to the mac. Basically, I was using Batik to render some SVGs with perfectly scaled anti-aliasing. So, I bundled the pure java Batik jars with the game. But when OS X creates a .app on the desktop to start my webstart, it starts java in some screwed up environment which prevents Batik accessing its own resources. But the problem is absent if you start the web app from the OS X java util. On the basis of that I ended up ripping out Batik and doing without it -- not ideal but it works.

But after resolving that issue my game worked fine on the mac.

josh

[TheAnalogKid]

emmm, excuse me but this is getting rather off topic right? I suggest starting a new thread if you wish.

[gouessej]

There're some different types of negative comments about JGT. The main one I retain is the fact that Java is emphasized in the game site, which doesn't fit well from the consumer perspective. While Java game developers can feel proud about that, unfortunately the Java name can and I'm sure still has a bad connotation to the consumer. Long time ago, the slowness and bad client side integration of Java has made huge damage to the reputation of the technology, and for justified reasons during many years. Fortunately and obviously these weaknesses were solved several years ago and with the advent of Java 6u10+, the situation can only improve. But the bad Java reputation on the client side still persist more or less. Having said that, I'm seriously wondering if JGT should be renamed by removing the word Java in the new name. OK I already hear people on this thread complaining that I should spread word on Java everywhere and not being afraid of advertising it. To those people, please reconsider my arguments here.

I don't want the JGT to change its name, it does not solve any problem ("reculer pour mieux sauter" as we say in French). We should do our best to improve the reputation of Java instead of complaining about it and hiding the fact that our games use it. I won't reconsider anything!

Games published by our own members! Go get 'em!

[intempo]

I think the point to return trust to Java is the most important. Currently, many users that read about the need to install Java go away and look for other games that doesn't require them to install anything. I think that most of them are just afraid to get some weird thing on their system as they didn't hear much of "Java". If we help to make the name "Java" as popular as "Flash", more people will dare to install JRE to play Java games. And promoting a resource like JGT which specifically mentions "Java" and offers a great bunch of _only_ Java games will help all of Java game developers - more people will come to JGT, most likely they will find a game they like there as there are many games and they will install Java. Later, when they come to your Web site, they will have Java already and will be able to try your game right away. I believe that the scenario I described is quite possible and it is worth to support JGT for the sake of the "Java" popularity.

[noblemaster]

Another idea is to create a site like Kongregate but entirely focused on Java. All the games would have to work as a Java Applet. The game site would provide a template, e.g. a GameApplet. The requirement would be something like Java 5+.

It would guarantee that all the games would work once they use the GameApplet. The site could provide a chat window, rating system etc.

Obviously the original developer will keep the full IP. The games on the site would all be free (probably demo/lite version). There would be a link to the game's/developer's full version.

Now, I am somewhat doubtful to get enough support. On the other hand, java4k.com is a great start. Limiting games to Applets & opening up the limitations to >4K would probably do the job?

[bobjob]

how about a java application, that works just like "steam" but for java games.

wouldnt me suitable for webstart games, only downloadable ones.
games would also have to conform to the menu system.

Non free games should be purchasable with credit card through the app. So whoever develops the game manager would take a small percentage.

The only way it would take off, is if some games required the user to install it. Just like HalfLife2 required steam.

[intempo]

Another idea is to create a site like Kongregate but entirely focused on Java. All the games would have to work as a Java Applet. The game site would provide a template, e.g. a GameApplet. The requirement would be something like Java 5+.

I think this would work, the only question why would it need GameApplet? I think that the Java 5+ requirement is quite enough and it should be the only one. And a site like Kongregate with the properties you described seems to me a good option to promote Java.

Now, I am somewhat doubtful to get enough support. On the other hand, java4k.com is a great start. Limiting games to Applets & opening up the limitations to >4K would probably do the job?

Yeah, limiting games to Applets but letting them to be of any size will open the doors to many games implemented as Java Applets. And if there is a rating system that allows the user to only see games of a specific category, e.g. "recently added", "good rated", "all", - that would make it easy to use and attractive. In my opinion, any Web resource that contains so many games that even any visitor can find the one he/she likes will become popular. And if this resource forces the users to install Java, this will make Java itself popular and more spread.
Java Game Tome is a resource of this kind. Of course, another one would make it even better but it doesn't seem that it can appear soon as there is not much optimism regarding this idea Meanwhile, I've added a back-link to JGT on my Web site

[appel]

Another idea is to create a site like Kongregate but entirely focused on Java. All the games would have to work as a Java Applet. The game site would provide a template, e.g. a GameApplet. The requirement would be something like Java 5+.

It would guarantee that all the games would work once they use the GameApplet. The site could provide a chat window, rating system etc.

Obviously the original developer will keep the full IP. The games on the site would all be free (probably demo/lite version). There would be a link to the game's/developer's full version.

Now, I am somewhat doubtful to get enough support. On the other hand, java4k.com is a great start. Limiting games to Applets & opening up the limitations to >4K would probably do the job?

Java4K.com is dedicated for the 4K games contest, not going to change.


There are all sorts of problem associated with creating a full fledge kongregate-like game portal. Why Kongregate.com has full-time staff working on the site is self-explanatory.